HR: Hello, this is Hari Ramakrishnan [HR] and I’m interviewing today [inaudible 00:00:04] Ramakrishnan, known more personally to me as my mum, and known in music circles as Durga Ramakrishnan [DR]. What day – and today is the 14th of April 2014, this is part of the Desh Project with the Asian Arts Agency in Bristol. So just before we start you were telling me about today’s a special day because it’s Tamil New Year, is that correct?

DR: Yeah, Tamil New Year’s Day, which we celebrate on the full moon day in April. We call it [inaudible 00:00:36].

HR: What’s –

DR: In Tamil.

HR: What’s the significance of it?

DR: We celebrate Tamil New Year’s Day as the – as we follow the lunar calendar, and the solar calendar in India, for Tamilians, this is a very special day. We worship Lord Muruga as the god of literature and Tamil god celebrated in South India. Especially on this occasion we cook a special dish where it contains all the six tastes, which means life is full of sweet, sour, salt, you have to take life as it comes.

HR: What are the other three tastes?

DR: That’s the significance – sweet, sour, salt, bitter … two more missing. Savoury, and you do say pungent, or –

HR: Pungent, sort of like strong cheese?

DR: Yeah, something like that, yeah, six things mixed in one dish, where you cook mangos, and then you cook the mangos in tamarind sauce, add some jaggary and in the end you have to season it with neem [?] flowers, because neem flowers are quite bitter, so they all go in the same dish. And it’s a very special dish on this occasion which significant – signifies the life, life is a mixture of things. And also the full moon day in my grandma’s days, in Tamil Nadu, I think it’s a very special night, and people have open terraces, not like nowadays we have flats, of course there is open terrace, but maybe tenth floor or fifth floor. We had individual houses, and everybody will cook some nice meal, and take it to the terrace, and the eldest person in the family, the lady, she will mix the rice, and all the mixed rice things, we all used to sit at a circle and we used to eat in our hand. And that night is a very special night, it’s a moonlight dinner, similar to candlelight dinner.

HR: Well speaking of growing up with your grandmother then, where were you born?

DR: I was born in Chennai, Chennai is the capital city of Tamil Nadu, state of Tamil Nadu. I was born there, I studied there, till my university. And yeah.

HR: So you said you were raised or you grew up with your grandmother?

DR: Yeah.

HR: Was there a special connection because of music, or when did you start learning music?

DR: My parents also lived in the same place, because they were working full time, I was left with my grandmother, and as time passed on and my mother died I stayed with my grandmother. And we were a very big family, I have seen my great grandparents as well in that house. So I was – I still remember I think four or five years old, still I remember my great grandfather. They used to speak English, and now coming to England I could relate certain things in the past, how India have been before independence. And my great grandfather was a headmaster and a lecturer in [inaudible 00:04:11] College, then my great grandmother was a music teacher. She was also working, so the family had inheritance of music from there, my grandmother also played an instrument, basically she was a teacher in [inaudible 00:04:29] Mission [?] School. She was teaching subjects, but she also learned [inaudible 00:04:36] and after her retirement she taught [inaudible 00:04:41] to many people, and I was lucky because I stayed at home, always I used to listen, and hear, and I also learned from the age of five.

HR: What did you learn?

DR: I learned to play Veena and also sing Carnatic music. So that is something really nice in our house, where everybody used to sing and play the instrument. My aunties, my mum was a good performer, and it has been passed onto me. I also learned.

HR: So did you always learn, was it something that everyone was taught together at the home, or was it individual, and what not?

DR: I used to have individual lessons as well, whatever we learnt sometimes I used to sit with the students and learn, it depends. And on special occasions if there is any programme coming up in school, they may ask me to perform, then I used to ask her can you teach me this, can you teach me that? And I used to learn. So basically in our house music starts early morning, I used to practice when I was a child, we have to get up at 4:30 in the morning, and because your voice is so flexible in the early hours, and like we used to study early morning in India. We used to get up before sunrise, and any art, they used to practice instruments or dance, whatever you learn, and studies as well. You read, we have to read loudly, and because my grandmother also studied in a convent, especially when we reading literature and other subjects in English she used to correct me.

HR: So you said not only your grandmother, your great grandparents they said or did things that you only linked when you came over to Britain, in terms of the way they spoke English, what were those things you noticed?

DR: Many things, the communication was so good, even I don’t speak to that level, I would say exactly that the words they use here, she used to use. And she used to write beautifully, even her letters will be in English. We used to speak Tamil at home. One time when [inaudible 00:04:54] my daughter she took me to Oxford Library, she said, “Mum, we should never use pen here, we used to use pencil, to mark anything, or anything in the books, and we must never use,” I said, “This is what my grandmother used to say when I used to use pen in my textbooks,” she used to say, “You shouldn’t do that, you have to use a pencil if you need to mark anything, don’t use a pen.” So every day you learn, every day is a new day and you remember certain things, you learnt from them. You absorb them, so some – in that age when we were small you may not know why they say that, what is the context, you just hear around you, that’s so you’re learning something beautiful, you learn through all your five senses, and some words you – it reminds you in the later life. Okay, this is what they followed, and it’s a good thing to use a pencil, instead of scribbling in a book [laughs]. And we used to have teatime, two o’clock in our house, we used to drink tea exactly at two o’clock, afternoon, not with a cake or anything, but used to have it. And she used to knit, embroidery, knitting I think she learned in the convent school, they also had their tailoring and other things in those days. And she used to knit. These are some good memories I still have.

HR: So then you moved to Libya because of well after getting married and then moving over to Libya for job purposes. What was it like living there and how is it different from India, and then later comparisons as you’d moved to England.

[00:09:17]

DR: Being in Libya, we went during the [inaudible 00:09:22] was there, because of the plane which was hijacked, and I remember so many difficult situations, even food you have to stand in a queue to get food, soap and things like that. I felt India was more developed that Libya, the climate was very good there, people are very nice, the local people was nice. There was no telephone in the house, we had to go to the post office to ring India if at all we have to. And there were no newspapers, even television programmes were in Arabic, so when I came to England it was as if I was in a very [laughs], what to say, what do you say, that you were in a –

HR: Another world?

DR: Another world, yeah, yeah. This was totally different to Libya, I could walk in the streets on my own, where I could not do that in Libya. We could go and shop, I can go to the library, I felt so happy when I could go to library to read books, and programmes were in English, so in TV or radio you can hear. So it was all very different, and the bus system is so good here, I mean people do say it is – the bus never comes on time, in Libya there was no bus [laugh], so you have different experience in different places.

HR: So what were other first impressions you had when you came to England?

DR: Women, women had the liberty to do what they want and –

HR: More than Libya, or more than India so –

DR: Yeah, in both countries, more [laughs]. Each country is percentage differs, this is a completely different picture to Libya, where for woman you can dress what you want to dress, there they used to cover themselves, except two eyes, you can’t see anything when they walk out with that white cloth. Of course foreigners were not forced to wear anything, but even walking in the streets was difficult there on our own, we never used to go alone walking, maybe with group of friends we used to go. Yeah, in England there is more liberty for women, to think and act. And even in India now it’s getting better, not like when I was married, so things are different nowadays.

HR: So then you moved back to India, after living in England initially, was there anything you missed, or anything – habits you picked up that you brought back to India, that made you see India differently?

DR: To see?

HR: Or that you missed most?

DR: I don’t know what to say. Completely different lifestyle, here one thing there were no people coming here, much to visit us, and we didn’t have much community living here, as we used to have in India. Even in that way I had quite a good circle of friends, I made very good friends here, and I did miss my job, because I had to go for a short while there, and I was very initially I had so many doubts whether I can work in England. But I loved working here, I was working in the county council in Lincoln.

HR: What did you do there?

DR: As an admin assistant, I was working there, in different departments. Because initially I was only temping, and I didn’t go for a permanent job, because that’s what my first work experience started, my – I actually my career changed after coming to England, I was hoping to become a very big musician, and my initial plan was before leaving India, after finishing university was to become a lecturer in the music department. But everything changed after marriage, I had to leave the country, I had to go and then when I came here I couldn’t find the community what I need, to express my art, and develop. Still I had a small circle of friends where they were learning [inaudible 00:14:31] and violin and things, so I had a small chance to expose my art, and teach a small group. And then I made very good friends with – still I am in touch with all those people. So in that way I couldn’t do my – what you say musicianship, or as an artist, I couldn’t do much in the beginning. I was just trying to find out what’s like here, in England. So I changed my career to learn computers, because that was just developing, and I learned some computers, to work, and become an admin assistant. The one reason for admin assistant is from Libya, [laughs], they used to have no punctuality, if you give a passport for endorsing it will take some weeks, and so many things was happening in that administration, very poor. So I said, what – because I was not working, I didn’t know what was done in an office, what goes on. I really resolved in saying I should learn some office administration, that was the thing which kindled me to know about office administration and go and learn about it. And work in an office, basically to work in an office, so I had to change my career [laughs], still I’m working as an admin assistant for my living.

HR: So as you’ve left India for the second –

DR: Trip.

HR: The second time, what were your initial experiences of Bristol, because you came for a week or so before you properly moved.

DR: That’s right, yeah, I came because to check whether you – my – your sister, [inaudible 00:16:35] will get her admission, because she has just completed high school there, and have to go to higher secondary. And regarding you, I don’t know how – I – because I didn’t have plans to come back, basically, it so happened that I had to come back, and I liked Bristol, it was more busy than Lincoln, it had more multicultural things, and quite a big city, and I could see buses even going at ten o’clock, because in Lincoln everything will be shut by five, or six. So in that way - anyway you had to come wherever for a job and try, so that’s how I started my life here, and –

HR: So one thing I’ve noticed you’ve always had with you is your music, so you’ve taken it from India, what was it like either playing or how much involvement did you have with it whilst in Libya, and then you’ve spoken about Lincoln, but then how has it helped bringing it over to Bristol?

DR: Definitely I brought my instrument with me [laughs], even in Lincoln I took my instrument, because I couldn’t take it to Libya, because of the extreme weather conditions there. I can’t live without my instrument. Singing is something I breathe, because it was very close to my heart, and that gives me energy to do anything and everything. And it’s a great asset that has been passed onto me from my ancestors or my grandmother, my mother. I’m very grateful to them, without them, their guidance, and my teachers, I could not have achieved today what I am enjoying. Whether I perform, I teach, yeah.

HR: And how has Bristol helped with music?

DR: Bristol.

HR: Or how is it more involved with the Asian community in terms of music than other things?

DR: Yeah, the first point of contact in Bristol was in the Hindu temple, because I was looking for [inaudible 00:19:09] to continue her dance, and we came to know about [inaudible 00:19:13] who was running her school through [inaudible 00:19:16] and temple, temple was a beautiful place, because in Lincoln we didn’t have any temple, we used to go to Leicester for anything. And that was the thing, and because she was learning dance there was a dance performance in Bristol where they invited a very great artist. I think [inaudible 00:19:44], or [pause] [inaudible 00:19:54]. She came to perform, and we went for the performance, and casually I met the Asian Arts Agency person who had organised that event, and then I said I also sing and I’m very interested in music, and I perform, I play Veema. And then that lady said, “You just give me your details, we’ll keep you in contact,” that’s how I came to know Asian Arts in the first place. And slowly I made some contacts, with after going to temple with the dance and things like that, and I started to look for jobs. Then I volunteered for St Peter’s Hospice as a telephonist for a while, before, because everything had changed, there were more computers, computerised things in Jobcentre’s which I came to Bristol, which was not in Lincoln, it was a great change I would say. Lincoln was a very small place, so when I came here it was slightly what do you call, apprehensive. But whether you’ll get a job. Because people were – the expectation was more here in the city, city I would say. So it’s not same as Lincoln. And then yeah, I got my job after, I settled a little bit, initially it took six months to settle down and then [inaudible 00:21:30] [laughs].

[00:21:32]

HR: And how has it helped in terms of working, what is it like working in England, compared, what is life like working in England?

DR: Beautiful. Everything is very organised here, that’s what I appreciate, and people give their full dedication to work, and they have interests, and they expect 100% accuracy in whatever you do. And also that helps and motivates you to learn more, and organised, everything is organised, that is what I liked. And you don’t stay with just one area, what you have read, or I mean what you have been qualified, if you have any other interests, there is scope for you to develop your own skill and interests. Other than your job.

HR: Such as?

DR: What I’m doing like music, any extra things, if you want to learn yoga, you can go and learn yoga, and that like that, again when I became sick with my repetitive strain I had to change my career again to see what I can compensate, if I can’t do my administration for a long time in computers. I went for play work, so that is another dimension, because I always loved to work with children and in education sector, that gave me another channel to also use my skills, and be it dance, music, cooking, everything.

HR: And does it help to teach other people who are interested about India, to bring it with you?

DR: Oh yes, yes. Because when you go with children, some children used to say, oh you know for holidays we went to India, or my father has stayed in India, there is always some connection people talk about, their experience in India, either their parents were in India for quite a long time, they were posted and so I have a few people like that. And generally people also like to go and eat here in different Indian cuisines, what you call it, restaurants. And they have the taste for Indian food, they love it.

HR: But how does it help you, do you feel proud of being able to teach people about India, and does that help establish a connection along with the music, the food, that brings India with you?

DR: Yes, some of the things I could represent for, yes.

HR: Yeah.

DR: I feel proud, and also – and Bristol is a great place for diversity, it is in our curriculum, it is in our law, and everything like equality, and the cultural exchanges, is there. So I have also learnt so many things from British people, working here with others. Like how they plan for things, in planning, and even for Christmas, how they put up the tree, or what is the custom behind, what they do for Christmas. Because I used to – I never knew that you have – I know little details about Christmas, we used to celebrate in India, my neighbour was a Christian, so on Christmas I used to be there playing with the boys. And eating nice cakes, and we used to enjoy our time with them. But here when you come you really get to know what it’s all about, and how it’s celebrated, so even I used to have Christmas tree at home, because my children like it, and buy presents for them. Now when I work, I also buy presents for my colleagues, they also buy presents for me, so we have a very good teamwork and friendship. And not only that, I have learnt – say like in our place always there will be somebody to do things for you, if you want, one thing here I have seen even ladies working up to themselves, to go and do their DIY things. Which I always appreciate and admire. So, if you have to do something, you have to learn and develop that interest, and be confident, yes you can do if you try, you can do, if you have interest you can learn. That I see in everybody. Driving a car, or DIY things, ladies, they do.

HR: All right, thank you very much.

DR: Thank you for having my interview, with you, I really enjoyed, thank you.