}
OH415 Interview with Dale Wakefield (OutStories Bristol)
Please note this is not a full complete transcript but a detailed summary of the recording
V04_Wakefield_1 [00.46.28] [Session one: 26 September 2012] Dale Wakefield [DF], born Bristol, 1941. Remarks on relatively happy childhood, mentions parental divorce, being in and out of hospital with club foot. Mentions family moving around and going to different schools. Failed 11 plus and went to Secondary Modern [01.52]. Mentions living in Gloucester Road and first council house in St Pauls, Henbury, Hartcliffe, Whitchurch and Totterdown, remarks on whole family living in one room. Mentions brother, mother and grandmother [04.12].Time spent in Winford Orthopaedic Hospital, mention of tuberculosis (TB) patients and story about cows coming into hospital, mentions being sent parcels from USA [07.15]. Remark on importance of 11 Plus. Left school at 16, last school Marksbury Road Girls. Describes self as goody-goody, mentions being school prefect [10.39]. Comments on ease of finding work. Went into accounts at insurance company in Baldwin Street. Moved around insurance firms and became an agent [12.24].
[12.24] Describes two significant relationships, John Derek and Alan Wakefield. Story about meeting John Derek. Mentions brother going into army [15.26]. Describes Chinese Jazz Club on Corn Street. Describes close gang of friends, remarks on being only girl in gang. Description of Chinese Jazz Club, mentions Locarno. Remarks on all-nighters [17.35]. Detailed description of meeting and getting together with Alan Wakefield. Describes being proposed to by Alan [21.30]. Detailed description of marriage to Alan at Bristol Registry Office, by Special Licence, five days after proposal [24.00]. Left home and moved to married quarters, remarks on army life. Mentions early interest in politics. Mentions involvement in Communist Party. Mentions Barbara Castle speaking in Weston Super Mare. Mentions anti-hanging campaigns. Mentions absence of gay and women’s movements at the time [28.30]. Living in Winchampstead, village near Reading with husband. Birth of first child, son in Reading. Comments on being inspected by Officer’s wife. Alan Wakefield left army, remarks on difficulty adjusting to civilian life. Comments on him working as night croupier in Bristol. Description of throwing him out of the house, story about hitting vicar with suitcase [35.02]. Mentions daughter Laura being born soon after, remarks on anger with Alan Wakefield. Mentions being offered husband’s insurance job. Mentions buying house in Totterdown. Mentions move into prison service, to Holloway Prison. Plan to move with family to Pucklechurch. [39.00].
[39.00] Comments on lesbianism at Holloway Prison. Description of first attraction to a woman. Mention of woman trying to kiss her. Mention of women looking like men. Comments on lack of cultural animosity towards lesbians. Mentions Radnor Hotel. Story about going to Radnor with group of friends to laugh at gay people. [43.08]. Description of going to the Elephant and Old Duke for possible spill-over from Radnor. Mentions going to Radnor. Mentions meeting first girlfriend at Moulin Rouge. Description of relationship. Comments on butch-femme lesbians [46.28].
V04_Wakefield_1 [01.46.41] [Session two: 26 September 2012] Description of Moulin Rouge, venue and atmosphere. Remarks on no women’s venues. Comment on police involvement at Moulin Rouge. Discussion about police attitudes. Story about policeman being demoted for arresting too many gay people. Comment on police talking to people at Moulin Rouge for information about crimes with a gay connection [07.02]. Mention of being confused in first relationship. Remarks on women’s parties at men’s houses. Describes starting Gay Women’s Group with Monika Schue. Describes founding of Switchboard. Describes creating lesbian magazine in Bristol called Move, comments on content and distribution. Mentions other lesbian magazines Sappho and Arena Three. Discussion of Move as feminist rather than radical. Remarks on London-orientated nature of other magazines. Mentions ‘Bit from the Sticks’ in Move. [13.54]. Description of founding of Gay Women’s Group. Story of writing, printing and producing Move. Description of reasons for beginnings of Gay Switchboard. Mention of IceBreakers, gay counselling group. Mention of Gay Liberation Front (GLF). Describes logistics of start of Switchboard. Remarks on Switchboard being at her house, start date 13th or 14th February [20.15]. Detailed story about Bristol police contact with Switchboard for help with case of older man and boy in care in Wales. Description of staffing Switchboard. Description of calls to Switchboard. Remark on trying to communicate with Ice Breakers. Remarks on Bristol scene starting to buzz after 1975. Mention of gay pound [27.39]. Description of Women’s Centre. Description of start of Lesbian Line. Mention of ‘roman-candling’ and political activist burn-out. Discussion of mother’s, son’s and daughter’s reactions to involvement in activism. Story about son Sean almost being expelled from school for being a New Romantic and Sean being called queer [32.15].
[32.15] Description of three significant relationships with women, Kath Laws, Yvonne Grange and Annie. Comments on butch-femme. Mentions meetings at Women’s Centre and Moulin Rouge. Story about Kath Laws’ cancer and probable death. Remarks on own openness about sexual orientation [35.45]. Discussion about relationship between lesbians and feminists. Comments on lesbian separatism and lesbian choicers. Remarks on lesbian cause within women’s movement. Comments on own liberal political stance. Remarks on clashing ideologies. Mention of Campaign for Homosexual Equality (CHE). Remarks on hierarchies with CHE and mention of GLF and Gay Women’s Group as collectives. Discussion of aims of GLF and Gay Women’s Group and remarks on men and women working together. Further discussion on not understanding lesbian choicers. [44.48]. Discussion of own hopes for political change and how possible change felt. Mention of Thatcher creating more individualistic society. Mention of civil partnerships, discrimination and age of consent as political changes. Comment on contemporary goods and services legislation [50.09].
[50.09] Comments on 1970s and 1980s gay activism. Description of start of Section 28 (S28) activism. Mention of phone being tapped. Discussion of S28 as poor legislation. Description of Bristol S28 meetings. Mention of going on S28 marches in London and Manchester. Story about London march and first encountering of violent police response at rally after march. Mention of Conservative friend being shocked at police action. Remarks on being kept waiting before marching past Parliament. Mention of some trouble from Socialist Worker’s Part (SWP) [59.36]. Remarks on changing police attitude. Mention of Miner’s Strike. Comments on S28 march in Manchester being fine. Mention of Pride marches. Comments on lack of homophobia on the ground [01.03.10]. Discussion of impact of S28 on funding of activities. Mention of Bristol City council grant given to run s28 event. Remarks on lack of funding for organisations. Description of Bristol Pride Week events. Remarks on AIDS funding. Mention of Aled Richards organisation. Mention of awful AIDS tombstone adverts. Mention of Lighthouse London [01.09.45].
[01.09.45] Describes own activism beginning to burn-out. Description of Women’s Aid involvement. Comments on end of collectives. Story about Women’s Aid funding being pulled because Bristol City Council refused to work with a collective. Description of attempt to continue to provide refuge provision for women fleeing domestic violence. Description of difficulties in communicating with Bristol City Council and provider. Story about being betrayed by councillor and mention of Judicial Review. Comment on differences between safe accommodation and refuge [01.15.20]. Comment on Lesbian Line and Women’s Centre closing. Comments on location of Women’s Centre and its move to Easton. Mention of Ellen Malos. Remarks on children growing up and becoming a grandmother. Comments on retiring in 1989. Comments on moving from Totterdown to current house in Knowle in 2002. Comments on differences between Totterdown and Knowle. Remarks on stability of neighbours. Comments on locations of children and grandchildren [01.22.24]. Remarks on Clifton and Central City as gay venues. Remark about trying to move into Old Market. Mention of Chantelle’s in Clifton, meetings in Quaker Meeting House and Scarlet Coat. Description of first women’s nights. Descriptions of Chantelle’s and Scarlet Coat. Remark on gay venues being cheaper than straight venues. Comments on butch-femme becoming more butch-y. Comments on lesbian appearance. Remark on Bristol being less butch-femme than other places and her preferring Bristol. Mention of film Killing of Sister George [01.28.00] Stories about her and friend going to butch-femme club Gateways in London. [01.31.25]
[01.31.25] Comments on different versions of film The Children’s Hour. Discussion about newness of vocal homophobia on internet. Discussion about changes in open-ness about gay issues. Mention of contemporary tv series Lip Service. Remark on not recognising self in Lip Service. Mention of tv series L Word. Discussion about Lip Service and L Word not being real life [01.38.40]. Mention of film Desert Hearts. Comments on past and contemporary attitudes towards people coming out. Comments on never having hidden sexual orientation from work but work assuming heterosexuality. Story about workplace H L Goodmans and offer of promotion when outed [01.43.28]. Reflections on life now, being alone after life filled with people and activity. Comments on liking having computer and internet [01.46.41].
Notable quotations “It was normal in Holloway; the abnormal person would be the heterosexual.” V04_Wakefield_1 [40.00].
“Everything was going on. Bristol was one of the liveliest places in the country at the time.” V04_Wakefield_2 [26.24].
“Minorities within minorities get brushed with who the most vocal part of that minority is” V04_Wakefield_2 [36.15] [on political lesbianism – part of discussion about relationship between lesbians and feminists and own political aims, up to 47.45ish on tape, whole section is worth highlighting, great animated speech].
“Nobody asking what you were out of the blue like that. We’re not like that in the West Country are we?” V04_Wakefield_2 [01.30.50] [On butch-femme and Bristol having a more relaxed scene than London].
“Nowadays people are more likely to let it all hang out and be less intolerant. But I’m not sure they were ever particularly intolerant in the first place. Because in my day people were a lot less likely to want to come out because of fear of consequences. The consequences if they had come out probably wouldn’t have been there. I came out right from the start and I never came across any problems.” V04_Wakefield_2 [01.39.40].
“Where am I now? I’m basically alone. I’m quite happy with that, I quite like being alone. After a life filled with millions of people, I’m alone. I can decide when I have breakfast and when I have dinner... life is free.” [01.44.00]
V04_Wakefield_1 [00.46.28] [Session one: 26 September 2012] Dale Wakefield [DF], born Bristol, 1941. Remarks on relatively happy childhood, mentions parental divorce, being in and out of hospital with club foot. Mentions family moving around and going to different schools. Failed 11 plus and went to Secondary Modern [01.52]. Mentions living in Gloucester Road and first council house in St Pauls, Henbury, Hartcliffe, Whitchurch and Totterdown, remarks on whole family living in one room. Mentions brother, mother and grandmother [04.12].Time spent in Winford Orthopaedic Hospital, mention of tuberculosis (TB) patients and story about cows coming into hospital, mentions being sent parcels from USA [07.15]. Remark on importance of 11 Plus. Left school at 16, last school Marksbury Road Girls. Describes self as goody-goody, mentions being school prefect [10.39]. Comments on ease of finding work. Went into accounts at insurance company in Baldwin Street. Moved around insurance firms and became an agent [12.24].
[12.24] Describes two significant relationships, John Derek and Alan Wakefield. Story about meeting John Derek. Mentions brother going into army [15.26]. Describes Chinese Jazz Club on Corn Street. Describes close gang of friends, remarks on being only girl in gang. Description of Chinese Jazz Club, mentions Locarno. Remarks on all-nighters [17.35]. Detailed description of meeting and getting together with Alan Wakefield. Describes being proposed to by Alan [21.30]. Detailed description of marriage to Alan at Bristol Registry Office, by Special Licence, five days after proposal [24.00]. Left home and moved to married quarters, remarks on army life. Mentions early interest in politics. Mentions involvement in Communist Party. Mentions Barbara Castle speaking in Weston Super Mare. Mentions anti-hanging campaigns. Mentions absence of gay and women’s movements at the time [28.30]. Living in Winchampstead, village near Reading with husband. Birth of first child, son in Reading. Comments on being inspected by Officer’s wife. Alan Wakefield left army, remarks on difficulty adjusting to civilian life. Comments on him working as night croupier in Bristol. Description of throwing him out of the house, story about hitting vicar with suitcase [35.02]. Mentions daughter Laura being born soon after, remarks on anger with Alan Wakefield. Mentions being offered husband’s insurance job. Mentions buying house in Totterdown. Mentions move into prison service, to Holloway Prison. Plan to move with family to Pucklechurch. [39.00].
[39.00] Comments on lesbianism at Holloway Prison. Description of first attraction to a woman. Mention of woman trying to kiss her. Mention of women looking like men. Comments on lack of cultural animosity towards lesbians. Mentions Radnor Hotel. Story about going to Radnor with group of friends to laugh at gay people. [43.08]. Description of going to the Elephant and Old Duke for possible spill-over from Radnor. Mentions going to Radnor. Mentions meeting first girlfriend at Moulin Rouge. Description of relationship. Comments on butch-femme lesbians [46.28].
V04_Wakefield_1 [01.46.41] [Session two: 26 September 2012] Description of Moulin Rouge, venue and atmosphere. Remarks on no women’s venues. Comment on police involvement at Moulin Rouge. Discussion about police attitudes. Story about policeman being demoted for arresting too many gay people. Comment on police talking to people at Moulin Rouge for information about crimes with a gay connection [07.02]. Mention of being confused in first relationship. Remarks on women’s parties at men’s houses. Describes starting Gay Women’s Group with Monika Schue. Describes founding of Switchboard. Describes creating lesbian magazine in Bristol called Move, comments on content and distribution. Mentions other lesbian magazines Sappho and Arena Three. Discussion of Move as feminist rather than radical. Remarks on London-orientated nature of other magazines. Mentions ‘Bit from the Sticks’ in Move. [13.54]. Description of founding of Gay Women’s Group. Story of writing, printing and producing Move. Description of reasons for beginnings of Gay Switchboard. Mention of IceBreakers, gay counselling group. Mention of Gay Liberation Front (GLF). Describes logistics of start of Switchboard. Remarks on Switchboard being at her house, start date 13th or 14th February [20.15]. Detailed story about Bristol police contact with Switchboard for help with case of older man and boy in care in Wales. Description of staffing Switchboard. Description of calls to Switchboard. Remark on trying to communicate with Ice Breakers. Remarks on Bristol scene starting to buzz after 1975. Mention of gay pound [27.39]. Description of Women’s Centre. Description of start of Lesbian Line. Mention of ‘roman-candling’ and political activist burn-out. Discussion of mother’s, son’s and daughter’s reactions to involvement in activism. Story about son Sean almost being expelled from school for being a New Romantic and Sean being called queer [32.15].
[32.15] Description of three significant relationships with women, Kath Laws, Yvonne Grange and Annie. Comments on butch-femme. Mentions meetings at Women’s Centre and Moulin Rouge. Story about Kath Laws’ cancer and probable death. Remarks on own openness about sexual orientation [35.45]. Discussion about relationship between lesbians and feminists. Comments on lesbian separatism and lesbian choicers. Remarks on lesbian cause within women’s movement. Comments on own liberal political stance. Remarks on clashing ideologies. Mention of Campaign for Homosexual Equality (CHE). Remarks on hierarchies with CHE and mention of GLF and Gay Women’s Group as collectives. Discussion of aims of GLF and Gay Women’s Group and remarks on men and women working together. Further discussion on not understanding lesbian choicers. [44.48]. Discussion of own hopes for political change and how possible change felt. Mention of Thatcher creating more individualistic society. Mention of civil partnerships, discrimination and age of consent as political changes. Comment on contemporary goods and services legislation [50.09].
[50.09] Comments on 1970s and 1980s gay activism. Description of start of Section 28 (S28) activism. Mention of phone being tapped. Discussion of S28 as poor legislation. Description of Bristol S28 meetings. Mention of going on S28 marches in London and Manchester. Story about London march and first encountering of violent police response at rally after march. Mention of Conservative friend being shocked at police action. Remarks on being kept waiting before marching past Parliament. Mention of some trouble from Socialist Worker’s Part (SWP) [59.36]. Remarks on changing police attitude. Mention of Miner’s Strike. Comments on S28 march in Manchester being fine. Mention of Pride marches. Comments on lack of homophobia on the ground [01.03.10]. Discussion of impact of S28 on funding of activities. Mention of Bristol City council grant given to run s28 event. Remarks on lack of funding for organisations. Description of Bristol Pride Week events. Remarks on AIDS funding. Mention of Aled Richards organisation. Mention of awful AIDS tombstone adverts. Mention of Lighthouse London [01.09.45].
[01.09.45] Describes own activism beginning to burn-out. Description of Women’s Aid involvement. Comments on end of collectives. Story about Women’s Aid funding being pulled because Bristol City Council refused to work with a collective. Description of attempt to continue to provide refuge provision for women fleeing domestic violence. Description of difficulties in communicating with Bristol City Council and provider. Story about being betrayed by councillor and mention of Judicial Review. Comment on differences between safe accommodation and refuge [01.15.20]. Comment on Lesbian Line and Women’s Centre closing. Comments on location of Women’s Centre and its move to Easton. Mention of Ellen Malos. Remarks on children growing up and becoming a grandmother. Comments on retiring in 1989. Comments on moving from Totterdown to current house in Knowle in 2002. Comments on differences between Totterdown and Knowle. Remarks on stability of neighbours. Comments on locations of children and grandchildren [01.22.24]. Remarks on Clifton and Central City as gay venues. Remark about trying to move into Old Market. Mention of Chantelle’s in Clifton, meetings in Quaker Meeting House and Scarlet Coat. Description of first women’s nights. Descriptions of Chantelle’s and Scarlet Coat. Remark on gay venues being cheaper than straight venues. Comments on butch-femme becoming more butch-y. Comments on lesbian appearance. Remark on Bristol being less butch-femme than other places and her preferring Bristol. Mention of film Killing of Sister George [01.28.00] Stories about her and friend going to butch-femme club Gateways in London. [01.31.25]
[01.31.25] Comments on different versions of film The Children’s Hour. Discussion about newness of vocal homophobia on internet. Discussion about changes in open-ness about gay issues. Mention of contemporary tv series Lip Service. Remark on not recognising self in Lip Service. Mention of tv series L Word. Discussion about Lip Service and L Word not being real life [01.38.40]. Mention of film Desert Hearts. Comments on past and contemporary attitudes towards people coming out. Comments on never having hidden sexual orientation from work but work assuming heterosexuality. Story about workplace H L Goodmans and offer of promotion when outed [01.43.28]. Reflections on life now, being alone after life filled with people and activity. Comments on liking having computer and internet [01.46.41].
Notable quotations “It was normal in Holloway; the abnormal person would be the heterosexual.” V04_Wakefield_1 [40.00].
“Everything was going on. Bristol was one of the liveliest places in the country at the time.” V04_Wakefield_2 [26.24].
“Minorities within minorities get brushed with who the most vocal part of that minority is” V04_Wakefield_2 [36.15] [on political lesbianism – part of discussion about relationship between lesbians and feminists and own political aims, up to 47.45ish on tape, whole section is worth highlighting, great animated speech].
“Nobody asking what you were out of the blue like that. We’re not like that in the West Country are we?” V04_Wakefield_2 [01.30.50] [On butch-femme and Bristol having a more relaxed scene than London].
“Nowadays people are more likely to let it all hang out and be less intolerant. But I’m not sure they were ever particularly intolerant in the first place. Because in my day people were a lot less likely to want to come out because of fear of consequences. The consequences if they had come out probably wouldn’t have been there. I came out right from the start and I never came across any problems.” V04_Wakefield_2 [01.39.40].
“Where am I now? I’m basically alone. I’m quite happy with that, I quite like being alone. After a life filled with millions of people, I’m alone. I can decide when I have breakfast and when I have dinner... life is free.” [01.44.00]
