}
OH423 Interview with Dru Marland (OutStories Bristol)
Please note this is not a full complete transcript but a detailed summary of the recording
Dru Marland (DM) Introduces herself as a trans woman, age 55. Born male, transitioned 2002. Occupations poetry, illustration, after spending much working life at sea. Summarises history of employment tribunal [relating to workplace harassment based on her gender identity – details later in interview]. In Bristol since 1989, studied for English degree here. Happy in Bristol – continued working at sea. Was in a relationship, mentions having a daughter but unwilling to discuss further. [00:05:00] DM – happy childhood, 2nd of 4 children, mother died 1967 of leukaemia. Stepmother blamed DM for her father’s death so now estranged. Also fairly distanced from 2 brothers, hurtful . School life, ‘rather muddled’, flunked A levels, unable to join RAF due to vision problem. [00:08:30] Seafaring from 1981, practical skills then moved to ferry company as maintenance mechanic in engine room – good memories but it took her away from arty pursuits – had always loved painting, parents artistic. Not a career option for DM – now illustrates books, Christmas cards etc – discusses diversity of skillset and artificial split of arts and sciences.
[00:15:50] Questioned gender identity from age 11-12, read of Jan Morris [trans woman] in 1970s –[00:16:30] but “I thought her [Jan Morris’s] transitioning was not the right answer – I really thought I should make the best of what I’d got rather than try and change it. With hindsight this was the wrong answer. But as the years progressed it just became harder to keep a lid on it.” [00:17:10] Mentions 2nd marriage breaking down at this time – eventually decided transitioning was the only alternative to suicide. [00:18:10] – Jan Morris story, sense of sharing a ‘huge dark secret’ with someone else – “as though someone was finally seeing inside me, or I was seeing myself. But I felt that knowledge was too dangerous to admit to, which is why I kept a lid on it” – negative feelings about it – felt guilt, wrong and bad part of DM. DM was 14-15 when she read about Jan Morris – also a sense of relief, meant she was not alone – but it was unthinkable to share it with anyone – her worry of discovery. [00:22:40] 1995 New Years Eve in Weymouth, swapped clothes with female partner, first time DM externalised feelings of gender transition - felt elated, liberated, although in a safe ‘party’ context – from that point on the road to transitioning was set – describes details of that night – following day on beach, found scallop shell, symbol of pilgrimage and kept it – “the idea that something had woken up, that I was starting on a journey” – years of negotiating with DM’s partner, she was accepting but it was too problematic, relationship broke up. – ‘soul-searching’ involved.
[00:27:55] First step in a slow process was seeing GP - he was very helpful, his wife had research interest in transgender. [00:29:20] DM’s experience of health provision was generally very good – with two exceptions (not detailed) – slow process because of funding problems – saw a London consultant as a private patient in a gender clinic – DM felt he judged superficially – he has now left the clinic. [00:32:15] Change in GICs (Gender Identity Clinics) – in the past there was perception that patient had to present in certain way, as ultra-feminine – standard narratives were needed in order to get treatment – discusses ‘standard narratives’ – imperfect information set for health professionals – mentions Stuart Lorimer “rising star in GICs” – DM felt it was vital to be ‘authentically myself’ [00:34:30] - “If you’ve been living a secret for a long time, you really don’t want anything other than truth”. – mentions Charing Cross Gender Clinic, the most used GIC – also a NHS clinic in Yeovil area – DMs transition consultant was Russell Reed – Process began summer 2001 – saw Professor Richard Green in December 2001 – he told DM to live as a woman before hormone treatment – also in 2001 DM asked to go to Tasmania to bring a boat back ‘trip of a lifetime’ – [00:39:00] immediately after started hormone treatment – a very good diagnosis tool – spent summer [2002?] in St Malo, France – rather a dreamlike time – effects of female hormones made the senses super-intense – reactions from those DM disclosed to – all fine.
[00:41:10] End of 2002 season began job with P&O on Pride of Bilbao – crew in engine room tribal, hostile and ‘unreconstructed male’ – DM tried to be accepting and patient – [00:42:20] - “it was a bit like Lord of the Flies; they became progressively more savage as they realised they could get away with it” – management didn’t care – lasted for 2 years – mainly good experience despite hostility – worry of returns to ship after rest periods made DM sick – verbal abuse but “they felt more able [to give abuse] because they didn’t really see me as a real woman”. Incident with a pornographic calendar, photo labelled with Dru’s name – management did nothing – one crew member (also a union rep) made violent threats, others refused to talk to DM – 2nd engineer was present - management blamed DM for ‘camping it up’ – DM made formal complaint – DM had a severe breakdown in Sept 2004, impossible to return – P&O uninterested in resolving this – c. 2006-7 took P&O to employment tribunal – no legal aid, no help from Equal Opportunities Commission. [00:46:35] DM fought her own case, and won - felt vindicated. Case made national press – DM felt she was on trial, not P&O – P&O found liable for highest level of compensation for their harassment – nearly £70,000 award.
[00:53:20] Other media intrusions in her life – a friend and writer called Richard Beard proposed a book written by him, [00:54:50] - existing books conform to standard narrative of “a woman trapped in a man’s body” boyhood playing with feminine things, then transition then happy ever after. ‘Lazy and it doesn’t feel right’ – people mould their experiences to fit this narrative. [00:57:00] DM’s book was the story of a walk along Offa’s Dyke and DM’s conversations with Richard on the way – story is mediated through Richard as an outsider – ‘Becoming Drusilla’ (“a rubbish title”) published in 2008 by Random House, well reviewed. After the P&O trial DM contacted by several hack writers wanting to publish her story in magazines – but they were only interested in writing a 2 pager with before and after photos. “I didn’t need them and they didn’t need me”. Therapeutic to have a truthful version of DM’s story published. DM mentions her own blog ‘Upside Down in Cloud’ – needed when others have said horrible things about you. [01:04:00] Explains name Drusilla – it’s linked with birth name, had been known as Drew since 13, all friends now refer to DM as Dru. [01:05:55] Standard trans narrative of ‘before and after’ doesn’t fit – DM says everyone healthy is in transition from young to old; Dru sees herself as constantly changing and evolving – mentions Cordelia Fienne’s book on brain, sex and gender – the idea that our behaviour and actions modify our brains – “we become what we do” – phone rings precisely as the interview is wrapped up.
GOLDEN QUOTES: 00:16:30 – but “I thought her [Jan Morris’s] transitioning was not the right answer – I really thought I should make the best of what I’d got rather than try and change it. With hindsight this was the wrong answer. But as the years progressed it became harder to keep a lid on it.”
00:17:20 However horrible or impractical transitioning might be it was better than the certainty of killing myself, which I felt was all I had left... And I’m really glad I did it, my life has been extremely interesting and enriched by personal happiness and meeting some really good people.
00:18:10 – Jan Morris story made DM feel he shared a ‘huge dark secret’ with someone else – “as though someone was finally seeing inside me... or I was seeing myself. But I felt that knowledge was too dangerous to admit to, which is why I kept a lid on it”
00:34:30 - “If you’ve been living a secret for a long time, you really don’t want anything other than truth”
00:42:20 - “it was a bit like Lord of the Flies; they became progressively more savage as they realised they could get away with it”
Dru Marland (DM) Introduces herself as a trans woman, age 55. Born male, transitioned 2002. Occupations poetry, illustration, after spending much working life at sea. Summarises history of employment tribunal [relating to workplace harassment based on her gender identity – details later in interview]. In Bristol since 1989, studied for English degree here. Happy in Bristol – continued working at sea. Was in a relationship, mentions having a daughter but unwilling to discuss further. [00:05:00] DM – happy childhood, 2nd of 4 children, mother died 1967 of leukaemia. Stepmother blamed DM for her father’s death so now estranged. Also fairly distanced from 2 brothers, hurtful . School life, ‘rather muddled’, flunked A levels, unable to join RAF due to vision problem. [00:08:30] Seafaring from 1981, practical skills then moved to ferry company as maintenance mechanic in engine room – good memories but it took her away from arty pursuits – had always loved painting, parents artistic. Not a career option for DM – now illustrates books, Christmas cards etc – discusses diversity of skillset and artificial split of arts and sciences.
[00:15:50] Questioned gender identity from age 11-12, read of Jan Morris [trans woman] in 1970s –[00:16:30] but “I thought her [Jan Morris’s] transitioning was not the right answer – I really thought I should make the best of what I’d got rather than try and change it. With hindsight this was the wrong answer. But as the years progressed it just became harder to keep a lid on it.” [00:17:10] Mentions 2nd marriage breaking down at this time – eventually decided transitioning was the only alternative to suicide. [00:18:10] – Jan Morris story, sense of sharing a ‘huge dark secret’ with someone else – “as though someone was finally seeing inside me, or I was seeing myself. But I felt that knowledge was too dangerous to admit to, which is why I kept a lid on it” – negative feelings about it – felt guilt, wrong and bad part of DM. DM was 14-15 when she read about Jan Morris – also a sense of relief, meant she was not alone – but it was unthinkable to share it with anyone – her worry of discovery. [00:22:40] 1995 New Years Eve in Weymouth, swapped clothes with female partner, first time DM externalised feelings of gender transition - felt elated, liberated, although in a safe ‘party’ context – from that point on the road to transitioning was set – describes details of that night – following day on beach, found scallop shell, symbol of pilgrimage and kept it – “the idea that something had woken up, that I was starting on a journey” – years of negotiating with DM’s partner, she was accepting but it was too problematic, relationship broke up. – ‘soul-searching’ involved.
[00:27:55] First step in a slow process was seeing GP - he was very helpful, his wife had research interest in transgender. [00:29:20] DM’s experience of health provision was generally very good – with two exceptions (not detailed) – slow process because of funding problems – saw a London consultant as a private patient in a gender clinic – DM felt he judged superficially – he has now left the clinic. [00:32:15] Change in GICs (Gender Identity Clinics) – in the past there was perception that patient had to present in certain way, as ultra-feminine – standard narratives were needed in order to get treatment – discusses ‘standard narratives’ – imperfect information set for health professionals – mentions Stuart Lorimer “rising star in GICs” – DM felt it was vital to be ‘authentically myself’ [00:34:30] - “If you’ve been living a secret for a long time, you really don’t want anything other than truth”. – mentions Charing Cross Gender Clinic, the most used GIC – also a NHS clinic in Yeovil area – DMs transition consultant was Russell Reed – Process began summer 2001 – saw Professor Richard Green in December 2001 – he told DM to live as a woman before hormone treatment – also in 2001 DM asked to go to Tasmania to bring a boat back ‘trip of a lifetime’ – [00:39:00] immediately after started hormone treatment – a very good diagnosis tool – spent summer [2002?] in St Malo, France – rather a dreamlike time – effects of female hormones made the senses super-intense – reactions from those DM disclosed to – all fine.
[00:41:10] End of 2002 season began job with P&O on Pride of Bilbao – crew in engine room tribal, hostile and ‘unreconstructed male’ – DM tried to be accepting and patient – [00:42:20] - “it was a bit like Lord of the Flies; they became progressively more savage as they realised they could get away with it” – management didn’t care – lasted for 2 years – mainly good experience despite hostility – worry of returns to ship after rest periods made DM sick – verbal abuse but “they felt more able [to give abuse] because they didn’t really see me as a real woman”. Incident with a pornographic calendar, photo labelled with Dru’s name – management did nothing – one crew member (also a union rep) made violent threats, others refused to talk to DM – 2nd engineer was present - management blamed DM for ‘camping it up’ – DM made formal complaint – DM had a severe breakdown in Sept 2004, impossible to return – P&O uninterested in resolving this – c. 2006-7 took P&O to employment tribunal – no legal aid, no help from Equal Opportunities Commission. [00:46:35] DM fought her own case, and won - felt vindicated. Case made national press – DM felt she was on trial, not P&O – P&O found liable for highest level of compensation for their harassment – nearly £70,000 award.
[00:53:20] Other media intrusions in her life – a friend and writer called Richard Beard proposed a book written by him, [00:54:50] - existing books conform to standard narrative of “a woman trapped in a man’s body” boyhood playing with feminine things, then transition then happy ever after. ‘Lazy and it doesn’t feel right’ – people mould their experiences to fit this narrative. [00:57:00] DM’s book was the story of a walk along Offa’s Dyke and DM’s conversations with Richard on the way – story is mediated through Richard as an outsider – ‘Becoming Drusilla’ (“a rubbish title”) published in 2008 by Random House, well reviewed. After the P&O trial DM contacted by several hack writers wanting to publish her story in magazines – but they were only interested in writing a 2 pager with before and after photos. “I didn’t need them and they didn’t need me”. Therapeutic to have a truthful version of DM’s story published. DM mentions her own blog ‘Upside Down in Cloud’ – needed when others have said horrible things about you. [01:04:00] Explains name Drusilla – it’s linked with birth name, had been known as Drew since 13, all friends now refer to DM as Dru. [01:05:55] Standard trans narrative of ‘before and after’ doesn’t fit – DM says everyone healthy is in transition from young to old; Dru sees herself as constantly changing and evolving – mentions Cordelia Fienne’s book on brain, sex and gender – the idea that our behaviour and actions modify our brains – “we become what we do” – phone rings precisely as the interview is wrapped up.
GOLDEN QUOTES: 00:16:30 – but “I thought her [Jan Morris’s] transitioning was not the right answer – I really thought I should make the best of what I’d got rather than try and change it. With hindsight this was the wrong answer. But as the years progressed it became harder to keep a lid on it.”
00:17:20 However horrible or impractical transitioning might be it was better than the certainty of killing myself, which I felt was all I had left... And I’m really glad I did it, my life has been extremely interesting and enriched by personal happiness and meeting some really good people.
00:18:10 – Jan Morris story made DM feel he shared a ‘huge dark secret’ with someone else – “as though someone was finally seeing inside me... or I was seeing myself. But I felt that knowledge was too dangerous to admit to, which is why I kept a lid on it”
00:34:30 - “If you’ve been living a secret for a long time, you really don’t want anything other than truth”
00:42:20 - “it was a bit like Lord of the Flies; they became progressively more savage as they realised they could get away with it”
