OH597 Interview with Matt Forse (History of Place)
Uwen Yap (UY): Alright, it is the 28th of March on the Wednesday, my name is Uwen Yap at the M-Shed for the Accentuate History of Place Project. I am here with Matt Forse. Could you spell your name please?
Matt Forse (MF): M-A-T-T-H-E-W and Forse is spelt F-O-R-S-E
UY: Could you tell us where you were born and when?
MF: I'm Bristol born and bred. On the 1st of July 1978 I was born to two parents: Christine and David, at Southmead Hospital.
UY: Thank you. So, we're going, moving on to the first question. Firstly, could you provide us with a background of yourself?
MF: Although it's not, you can't see me on the tape recording, I am known for my size and being a tall person and I'm sure my personality will show through. From a young age I had an interest in computers and at the time it was a big up and coming thing: Spectrums, Ataris, Segas, yeah, I had all these... devices and yeah gained an interest in maths and IT at school which I went on to later progress.
Yeah, talking about my past can be, er not an easy subject. I didn't have the best of luck when I was born because as a young child I had two operations and it's taken me a long time to be able to communicate about one of them. Why I'm here today is to talk about that; I was going deaf as a... child and required surgery. Yeah, as a young child I sort of (...) it was confusing having different operations and it wasn't really explained to me that well why I had to have these, procedures. So yeah, it was a... traumatic start to life and I think it's made me...more of a sensible person and I've often tried to encourage others to be careful with their health because I've found myself in this situation, although yeah, it wasn't the worst case scenario as I can't compare myself to the awful problems some of the children experience and yeah, I'm a big fan of the Gromit Unleashed Project that raised a lot of money for the children's hospital in Bristol, yeah.
Would you like to ask me a question on....?
UY: Could you tell us what it was like growing up perhaps, in that kind, state of confusion, could you tell us more about that?
MF: ... I'm pleased you said confusion because I remember once, and probably other times as well, standing in the playground, yeah, being kind of confused and just on my own and (...) Basically my brother and his young son are both known for how outgoing they are as adults... as children I should say, and so people always used to often say to me. my brother was the noisy one and I was very quiet and (...) And yeah, that's why it's been better to talk about it in more recent years 'cos going deaf must have, yeah, ...not ...helped me in that regard. I had days when you sort of see it as yourself, that 'cos I was sort of quiet, or it caused me sort of maybe to be a bit inverted that, and I found it difficult mixing with others, although I had some good friends I had a sort of quite a sort of enjoyable... time with I (...) The thought of mixing with others at school and school.
A bit later in life like presentations give me the... fright, and um yeah that it didn't help me interact, and this is where I partly gained an interest with computers because I was able to interact and be... be myself more, and then also like friends that may have visited and enjoyed playing the computer games as well. ...It gave me(...) I think, like, there's a lot of people that have health problems... it gave me an outlet and to express my creative and talented side.
Page 2 UY: Could you tell us more about the process of overcoming the difficulties that you had from growing up?
MF: Yeah, my (...) I remember my Dad singing songs to me on occasions, he liked to be a bit of a performer with his personality and he himself grew up not the Broadway but near to the Broadwalk in Knowle, so that must have inspired him. Yeah, he was, he's a very friendly person and encouraging, although I didn't always spend enough time with him because he's a bit of a work-a...holic and (...)
Yeah, it's not always been my favourite subject trying to explain... all my... past but I think like others are telling their story... it does help you, your confidence and helps you realise how well you could be doing now and (...) Yeah...unfortunately trying to make myself more confident if that's the right word, and more outgoing, I then later had a breakdown and obviously although I did improve my outgoing personality yeah, that led to sort of me having this sort of concern and worry of having experienced that and a certain level of experience post-traumatic stress from having that experience and that was as a young adult.
Yeah, they say it is important as well who you mix with. I had a good friend at the time that encouraged me to go to the cinema, but sometimes watching all the unpleasant movies and or movies that you don't want to watch might not always be the best thing, but people tried to be helpful to me.
Maybe you'd like to ask a question about my young adult life?
UY: If you would like to explain more about that then we would definitely be...
MF: I thought you were going to ask that question, yeah. Not a specific question. Yeah, promote it as working quite a few hours on computers and that didn't... help as well, and I found it difficult with (...) Although I had like friends via like my computer side that I found it difficult to have friends to go out and about with, the pubs and clubs and yeah so I was a bit of a sort of ...late starter with (...)
UY: Alright.... [00:10:00]
MF: in adult life... with being out there with all the night life.
UY: You mentioned before that you had an inspiration to encourage others and that you raised money for the children's hospital. Could you give us more detail about that?
MF: Yeah... not(...) I certainly spent a lot of money in the Gromit Unleashed shops and that's, yeah, certainly contributed quite a bit of money. Yeah, I always remember when I was younger having (...) The children in my class gave me a card with butterflies on and I always (...) Yeah, certainly there was a project in Bristol a couple of years ago and it certainly made me smile.
Yeah, it's a very good cause the Gromit Unleashed project, especially (...) Well they've saved a lot of lives by donating the amount of money that they have done and one of the answers should I say, and I'm trying to say today is this is where society has changed: I think there is more support for, especially children, with their confidence, their personality. And also there's a lot of people that go through their lives and have done in the past and not had their disabilities diagnosed, or still maybe not supported... as they could have, it's sort of although thankfully, I can hear as well as anybody else, going back as a child I didn't have any specific support for this, it was (...) And yeah, but I think that although I did well at likes of then maths and the IT that some other subjects I didn't sort of grasp so quickly.
UY: So what would you say were the positive things about growing up in Bristol?
Page 3 MF: Well there's a lot said about the big city, Bristol. There's Bristol city, yeah. They like the sort of quote "drink up thee cider" for Bristol City Fans. Yeah, as a young child I was a (...) My Dad took me to Ashton Gate and... I really liked the atmosphere and following a football team and it gave me ambition and sort of hope and yeah (...) I later became a successful football coach myself, winning many matches and cups and coached talented players as well to future success.
I don't do any football coaching now but in recent years I've been helping a lot of people that are unemployed to find work: disabled people. Some of them can't speak very well, some of them have visual impairments and I've been successful supporting a lot of these people into work, yeah.
UY: Could you tell us more about that - your recent work?
MF: Yeah, I started as a volunteer. It was a sort of a new ‘in’ thing: IT- based work clubs, a lot of computer learning involved and (...) My female manager at the time who was also unfortunate too, herself to be in a wheel chair wanted to sign me to work for their, not only 'cos of my computer skills but my coaching and understanding of people. Yeah, and we became one of the busiest work clubs in Bristol and later went on to be modeled by the Government on how our strategy of supporting people with disabilities into work.
UY: Is there any particular... person or event or day that you remember from this job?
MF: There is one person who, if he came in the coffee shop this morning... he'd sort of brighten up the room and although he was partly American (...) Yeah, he was the sort of a great trier with his work and I helped him on different occasions. He'd got various different jobs, but unfortunately when he came in one day and said that he weren't feeling ...very well and then the next I heard he had to go to hospital and then he experienced quite a severe cancer himself and(...) And ...when we were told that his operation was...delayed I got involved and had contacts to try to still get the operation to go ahead on time, and I supported him where I could and yeah, ...thankfully (...) Yeah, I do get a bit emotional expressing this, you might not just hear that... on the tape recording as you (...) it's not a TV programme, but yeah, thankfully my support helped save his life and he recovered from the dreaded big 'C' Cancer, and (...)Yeah, there's been other people as well have stopped me in the street and they shake my hand for helping them find work and that's always... great to experience, yeah.
UY: How did that feel when people were coming up to you and when you were recognised for the support?
MF: Yeah, that was one of the differences between when I was initially in football because, especially with football it sort of changed from one week to the next. You could be the hero or the villain depending on the result, but it was (...) Although people say football is a matter of life and death that (...) Yeah, it was making a difference to the people's lives and there's also people that (...) A relative of ...a famous footballer in Bristol wrote a story saying how we'd supported him and helped change his life because of the support we were giving him.
Because a lot of people...suffered different problems and... they don't find it easy to sort of get out and mix with others or...and also finding the right(...)... what's good for them and I think that's (...) I've found that at times especially as like a young adult, what was the best to get involved in to, not just to help my football results but help myself as a person.
UY: Would you say you received a lot of support as a young adult?
MF: ...My parents bought me a computer and it was a multi-media computer and it was... to get on with life I think! Yeah, I'm in a kind of (...) been in different fields than other family members, although my Aunt and Uncle were, being very caring people they(...) My Uncle was an ambulance driver and my Aunt was a nurse. Yeah.
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UY: Could you tell us about any obstacles that you still face today?
MF: ...Sometimes with employment...you can still get (...) that's one thing you can get judged by the past. Probably like others, applying for jobs where they are sort of, yeah, you've got the skills but, like an easy way of explaining, have you got enough experience? Or if you've, like I have, I then changed... my career from working initially in software to other work and it hasn't always been so easy trying to...explain myself and competing [00:20:00] with others and sure do (...) Even when people are fully well and recovered ...they still need understanding and support and to be back in the sort of (...) in the same position, or get back in a better position, yeah.
UY: What other changes you would like to see relating to that?
MF: Yeah, from a ...working point of view I think there's a lot said by being judged when you are actually doing some of the work. These days we have a lot of jobs that you apply for online and they judge people with their CV ...on paper, ...as you like, and like I was saying before, it's great if you've got all the several years in this specific job and that's where they needs to (...) well they do call it reasonable adjustments where people have different... impairments but there still is a need of adaptability for employers (?) to recognise people's potential.
There's a lot in this world that I (...)I'm looking at my computer at the moment and seeing the tremendous amount of children initiatives, activities, and more job opportunities for young adults, but... we can live from eight-80 but ...you still need that potential and opportunity as you get older. My Great Uncle was (...) he flew on Concorde in his 80s and he still, yep, lived life to the full.
UY: You mentioned earlier that you believed that there should be more understanding and support for people with disabilities in the working area. Could you elaborate more on that?
MF: Yeah... I think that there could be more to help people develop their skills because there's a lot of people that are(...) There's some very talented people, but ...maybe they can't work quite the same hours, or maybe they can't (...) maybe they might need a bit more time, but yeah especially from a (....) Yeah, talented people that (...)which a lot of disabled people are(...) And I think it is about valuing different people's strengths and ...their talents and (...) Yeah, and I know I've come across different disabled people where they sort of can make them(...) They can be quite outgoing in personality but others can be criticising them for their sort of amount of written work and yeah, trying to sort of (...)
Well, it’s like some of the best companies are based on good team work and good ...working ethics and...I feel that in Bristol we can still develop our inclusion of ...society. I know we're a leading city, with being a leading green city and leading yeah, alright maybe not sport [laughter] leading in lots of other ways that, yeah. I still think that ...inclusion... is something that can still be worked upon.
Maybe I'll ask the interviewer if she ever sort of (...) Not want to go there? [laughter] I got all the questions to ask today? Yeah.
UY: You say you feel Bristol could be more inclusive in terms of being a leading city, but what would you say about Bristol in terms of the accessibility?
MF: Yeah, big shopping centres are doing a lot for disabled people: lots of car parking spaces, lifts to get up and down the flights of (...) in the multi-story buildings. ...I've always, well... liked development and was inspired by Brunel in Bristol. I would like the idea of (...) I don't find it that easy myself to sort of get one end of a shopping centre to the other. I like the idea maybe we could have some small like trains that you could trans...that you could get on but big enough for say, for a person in a wheelchair to be able to travel round the shopping areas with, yeah.
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UY: Do you have any personal experience of accessibility problems in Bristol?
MF: Yeah, different relatives have had different difficulties with walking. One of them ...had a ...disabled badge and it was sort of like being able to park outside was like turning up first class! But yeah, there's all kind of difficulty, people experience problems. ...Even if there is some support maybe there's not like handrails in different places and maybe there's like theatres, cinemas, there can be (...) People can experience problems getting up and down the stairs. Maybe you could find a seat right at the front but it's not always (...) or there could be like more cost involved ...to get the best position for yourself.
Yeah...yeah, there's more to be done in Bristol I think. I know we're the (...) We've got the internationally renowned Bristol Cream and Wallace and Gromit and Banksy, Brunel. There's certainly more we could do. I think we could (...) it would be good if Bristol could be on the map for disabled people.
UY: You mentioned relatives with specific disabilities. Would you be comfortable elaborating on that, perhaps within your experience with them?
MF: Yeah, I've had different older relatives that haven't found it easy to travel about and it's sort of been hard work. I've been there on Christmas morning with other family members trying to get the car to start and then going over to ...pick them up and (....) Yeah, it can be different mobility issues and a lot of these people they dislike using taxis, well, they can be expensive, but maybe more specific support for disabled.... we could advance on.
I also like the new technology. Yeah, you remember me saying that I liked technology when we first spoke. There's all these new devices which you talk to. The Amazon, the Google, Microsoft: different devices and it's coming in now where you've got the potential to say "please put the kettle on" and it can, with the plug switch on the kettle and I think that could be...good for a lot of people because that's one of the (...) People forget is that although there's all these different things to support people: Maybe you've got a walking stick, maybe you've got people caring for you, travelling around, but it's not so easy to quickly move around and organise yourself, and people like to present themselves as well, don't they? And, yeah, and we live in weathers that are (...) winds and weathers. So I'm sure I can think of a few ideas myself, yeah.
UY: You mentioned about people having difficulties presenting yourself. Going back to your childhood perhaps, how did it feel being compared to your brother at the time?
MF: Yeah, no, I didn't find it easy because I didn't just feel like that quiet. I had a sort of outgoing sort of mixing with friends kind of thing behind the scenes you could say. And getting on interacting with computers yeah wasn't, it didn't inspire me, they, it didn't encourage me, whereas there's a lot more [00:30:00] initiatives these days, like there's lots of ...sporting initiatives and groups. And a lot of children from a young age are using technology that you couldn't have dreamed of as, ...in the past 'cos it didn't always, hasn't always worked so well and might have to wait half an hour for it to start. I remember on tape computers, yeah.
UY: How do you feel that all this modern technology today could have helped you back then?
MF: Like me, I've spent a lot of money on it, that's ...what I've done, but yeah, I've always liked visiting the shops and mixing with (...) going to the shops. But no, that's still why it's important that there are different groups for different people and to a good standard because like you go through your everyday lives and it can be, Bristol can be like London with the amount of people walking past and(...)
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Including people in society and there's a lot of (...) I've supported people, supported an organisation with ME, and a lot of those people can't get out of their house. And I've been friendly with people that have depression and they have days where they can't go out anywhere, so all these forms of interacting (...) And there's been a lot of improvements with ...online social media so people can ...interact with (...) 'specially when they are limited to...mix with people.
UY: You mentioned different groups for different people; could you tell us what you mean on that more specifically?
MF: Yeah, well not just sort of like self-help, I know that can sound like 'Alcoholics Anonymous' and can seem very kind of scary to people, but there's what we call peer support groups where people that have had different problems meet up maybe in a coffee shop or have a day out and others may be able to help the others with transport and sort of share ideas and (...) Yeah, because it can be a worry experiencing sort of doctors and hospitals and there's a lot of people out there, yeah, that need to (...)
It's good to sort of brighten up your life and (...) Yeah but...that's why I'm kind of(...) Yeah, to sort of having problems as a child and young adult to 'Health Champion' just recently completed ...a course to be pro-active, encouraging others with their health, having had very good health and well-being for over the last ten years. But, yeah, that as a child and a young adult all those difficulties I faced, it could kind of held me back in a way. I came (...) I kind of (…)more advanced in sort of maybe my analysing maths and computers, but then it could hold me back ...personally and you find yourself having to compete for the likes of, for work and(...) Yeah, ...not being easy, no, especially as society we ju (...) joke…
It can be good that we're sort of looking back and like today, that it's good if I talk about ...my achievements as well as ...my difficulty, because I think that's what it's about.... It's good to hear about people's achievements and how they've overcome problems because when I've had difficult days myself that I feel that you've got to still ...have a chat, a smile and a laugh and, sure a lot of people have liked my entertaining side to me.
UY: You mentioned that you have had difficulties - is there one in particular that you remember?
MF: As a teenager I experienced asthma and I can't just say it's asthma, but I didn't, especially at school, I didn't find sport really easy. So... I was still very determined to ...overcome that and (...) Well, I often enjoyed playing badminton on a social level. As you know sport can be very competitive and (...) I've had days where my Dad sort of (...) I mean I feel for part of the family because he's more sort of in with his sporting mates than he was with his own son, but yeah (...)
But like peer support groups, sport can (...) Well, that's one of the reasons why you do need different peer support groups because not everybody can be part of that sports team. I've been there myself where I've turned up for a cricket team and luckily I managed to get ten minutes to come on and be in the field, but...it don't help your confidence, it don't (...) and that's where one of the areas they have advanced is disability sport, trying to make that option available to, well to all.
Yeah, but also my height that (...) I liked goal keeping as a child and when I found (...) When I got older I wasn't able to jump around quite as easily as I was because, ...being a tall person, so I often sort of (...) A lot of sport and opportunity can sometimes (...) Well... you sometimes feel (...) like I know there's like (...) I've known different players smaller than myself that can easily sort of...fit in to that sporting role a bit more. I remember a younger bit wanting to be a formula one racing driver although I'd be too big, too tall for it.
UY: You mentioned that when you were trying to look for jobs there was a lot of competition. Could you tell us more about that?
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MF: Yeah, that a lot of employers want people to be able to do the job ...straight away, and different (...) this is what I've found from supporting people with disabilities is that a lot of the people may not have worked for several years and they're sort of like praying for, hoping for the next opportunity because(...)You can often(...) Those people find themselves sort of competing against others and the other persons just been doing that job for the last several years, and you got (...) probably could do as well but then that's when you need the employer to still give you that time and to sort of give people more potential, recognise their potential, recognise their talent and yeah(...)
...I've worked with disabled people and I wouldn't know their problems that they've faced without working with them. You sort of (...) I thought they maybe sort of didn't (...) they could sort of claim benefits easier, but no, they've experienced all different problems themselves, like they could have not had their ...claims as appropriate etc, ...but they can have all the same(...) Yeah, that's what I'm kind of getting at is although people do have different problems, you can have different problems as well as a person, maybe you're kind of (...) maybe you wanted to be a football player and you weren't able to, it's sort of (...) I think this is where that unfortunately a lot of people suffer depression. Well very ...severe depression is where they kind of get upset, very upset and disappointed about their past and they can't change it, and or maybe they(...) I've come across people unfortunate to have to use wheelchairs and they can't do the things that they used to and (...)
It (...) I feel life is sort of (...) I've learnt that from my experience you've gotta kind of (...) Yeah, and I don't think can ...plan so well as, always plan so well [00:40:00] what you're doing the next day, or next week, or next month, but yeah, you've got to try and ...find ...new opportunity and that's the one thing I didn't understand as a child is that how much society changes and(...) You kind of get used to what works for you and then the maybe the funding might stop or your favourite shop might close 'cos of the ...money issues, yeah.
UY: What other problems did you encounter when helping people with disabilities get jobs?
MF: ...Morale can be a ...big issue and ...I found it that if I tried to encourage the person with their confidence and ...have some, what's good, have some understanding with that person, not just say sort of say well, "you'll be in a job in the next couple of weeks", it's sort of understanding that it could be a long process and unfortunately people cannot have the motivation to keep going at times and that's where you've had (...) that's where a good employment coach is very pro-active to... help them keep going. And I've helped support people with volunteering, which is good for gaining experience and work placements and ...trying to(...) I think you've got to take a bit of their time, you've gotta (...) It's a building sort of process that (...)
I know that from myself that although you can have, been had job advisors where sort of want you to be in the work as soon as possible and, but you've got to plan and ...not only(...) I think sometimes people forget that it's not only, "oh we've got all these methods to support people or understanding the people", but the people, the person with the disability still (...) or maybe they haven't worked for a long time If they recovered from health problems. They've still got to be confident and comfortable with ...what they're doing, like trying to find the sort of, a suitable job... Maybe sort of that's where like part time work is good for disabled people, yeah.
UY: Could you tell us more about the moral support that you provided in, during that time, the process?
MF: Yeah... yeah the importance is thinking ...what you're doing and myself thinking how I'm approaching different people and I’m supporting not just (...) 'cos a lot of these people can have had a bad experience of work so... it's trying to, sometimes day to day... encouraging them. Letting them know that there's other people out there experiencing the same problems. And I guess this is one of the ideas of this 'History of Place' project here in Bristol ...is to share ideas and let people know they're ...not alone with what they're experiencing and (...)
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Yeah, we see in recent days ...in the news, the great Stephen Hawking. And I've supported people with... the illness ME and a lot of the articles featured in ...UK-based newspapers and (...) And yeah, not just sort of going on about all the difficulties of like the ill..., their illness, but positives of the likes of what Stephen's achieved and (...)
I've seen that with helping people with work, maybe some of them have been quite talented in one way. I remember help, supporting one person who was a carpenter and unfortunately couldn't continue to work in that, but he must have had quite a bit of talent to do ...the type, some of the successes what he was doing. And I believe you can (...) Like some of the best sportsmen, they are kind of (...) you're not, not .just(...) you've got yeah work your, maybe could encourage and find them ...a new area of skill to develop, yeah.
Unfortunately, these things can... take time, sometimes too long, but yeah but encouraging people, others being able to see that there's other people with similar problems and also success stories. Yeah, ...we can do it. Being a health champion, being a good employment coach....We can achieve what we're trying to achieve and yeah, that's the moral of my story today that although that (...) Yeah, childhood confidence and ...other problems but I've managed myself to achieve ...a high working standard and that is higher than most. And, yeah, I'm proud to tell my story, yeah. Forced to tell a few stories in Fleet Street maybe we could say!
UY: So could you tell us more about this positive, you know, experience that you are drawing from yourself?
MF: I'm a person that likes to(...) Well as people here listening know that to achieve things, to get results and(...) Yeah, it's not (...) this is I think where this project is good at helping other people express themselves and ...not just seeing it as something that should be hidden. ...Our pasts and(...) ...I've come across in the past where you walk into a museum and you can sort of come out sort of...put off of ...what you're seeing, but modern Bristol, this sort of idea of museums are not just old museums, they're exciting places to be involved with, yeah.
UY: Is there anything that we haven't spoken about that you would like to talk about?
MF: ...Maybe I should ask you that question, yeah. I'm sure there might be a f (...) I know I often see films and you get the sort of the editors clips involved and(...) I'm just going to get the clapper board now and, yeah just ensure everything's hunky dory for his production, yeah.
UY: Is there any, perhaps part of your childhood or young adult growing up experience that you'd like to go into in more depth?
MF: Yeah, I remember being in the deep end of swimming and that's one of the things I find myself is sort of (...) I'm the sort of person that (...) I don't get easily selected. Maybe it's because of my height and also that maybe I maybe should credit my sort of being able to keep talking. I am partly Welsh - I've got Welsh family members, yeah, so(...) I had some relatives on the phone and they(...) I saw at the end of the conversation, I don't really know what they were sort of trying to achieve by phoning up, but you had a long chat and in the process.
But no, it is important to me to deliver, to get results, to encourage, to promote. But yeah...to value people and that's the (...) Life does have its experience and I'm sure we could all say that maybe that, if we had those skills, like as a child, maybe what we can do now, but you'd be still (...) This is what I learnt from my Granddad, oh a brilliant hosting [00:50:00] person, a gentleman they called him. But, yeah, always inspiring me that(...) He never always said a great deal, but when I heard the stories that he'd served the Queen with his hosting that, it was certainly somebody to inspire too. ...My Nan liked drinking her glasses of sherry and ...never worked a day in her life but was only known for getting drunk on VE Day!
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UY: So you draw a lot of inspiration from your Nan and Granddad, could you give us more personal stories on the inspiration from them?
MF: Yeah, both my Granddads came from different backgrounds. Both survived the War. ...One of them was in the RAF. ...One of them was more(...) Maybe he had more of the appearance and character of like a jockey and the other(...) [clears throat] Excuse me. Certainly being polite is what I learnt from this Granddad. Granddad William. He was, yeah a butler on ships during the War and yeah, went on to(...) His ship got sunk but he managed to survive. His colleague unfortunately didn't and he went on to host the Queen and I'm sure he hosted many others as well. And he didn't really always have to tell his story and I don't think he did tell his story, but his stories through what he achieved.
And I think that also an important thing is being polite and having time for people, and that certainly... makes a difference I think It’s one thing (...) you can't just put up a sign ' we're doing an event for disabled people,' it's having the things to interest them and support them and ...keeping it going as well, yeah.
You're a good...interviewer.
UY: Thank you!
MF: You must have done this before.
UY: I think that's a good note to end on? Yeah, alright. Is there anything else you would like to say? Any personal stories of inspiration that you would like to express to others considering that you find that important to you?
MF: Yeah, I know the 'History of Place' was initially organised in Broad Plain and I once went on to win a skittles tournament in that venue and it (...), yeah, one of my best sporting achievements, if you can call it a sport! I know people often laughed and joked and I'm sure this media coverage will end with a few thumbs up, smiles and yeah, 'Keep going!' is the message today. Thank you.
UY: Thank you
Matt Forse (MF): M-A-T-T-H-E-W and Forse is spelt F-O-R-S-E
UY: Could you tell us where you were born and when?
MF: I'm Bristol born and bred. On the 1st of July 1978 I was born to two parents: Christine and David, at Southmead Hospital.
UY: Thank you. So, we're going, moving on to the first question. Firstly, could you provide us with a background of yourself?
MF: Although it's not, you can't see me on the tape recording, I am known for my size and being a tall person and I'm sure my personality will show through. From a young age I had an interest in computers and at the time it was a big up and coming thing: Spectrums, Ataris, Segas, yeah, I had all these... devices and yeah gained an interest in maths and IT at school which I went on to later progress.
Yeah, talking about my past can be, er not an easy subject. I didn't have the best of luck when I was born because as a young child I had two operations and it's taken me a long time to be able to communicate about one of them. Why I'm here today is to talk about that; I was going deaf as a... child and required surgery. Yeah, as a young child I sort of (...) it was confusing having different operations and it wasn't really explained to me that well why I had to have these, procedures. So yeah, it was a... traumatic start to life and I think it's made me...more of a sensible person and I've often tried to encourage others to be careful with their health because I've found myself in this situation, although yeah, it wasn't the worst case scenario as I can't compare myself to the awful problems some of the children experience and yeah, I'm a big fan of the Gromit Unleashed Project that raised a lot of money for the children's hospital in Bristol, yeah.
Would you like to ask me a question on....?
UY: Could you tell us what it was like growing up perhaps, in that kind, state of confusion, could you tell us more about that?
MF: ... I'm pleased you said confusion because I remember once, and probably other times as well, standing in the playground, yeah, being kind of confused and just on my own and (...) Basically my brother and his young son are both known for how outgoing they are as adults... as children I should say, and so people always used to often say to me. my brother was the noisy one and I was very quiet and (...) And yeah, that's why it's been better to talk about it in more recent years 'cos going deaf must have, yeah, ...not ...helped me in that regard. I had days when you sort of see it as yourself, that 'cos I was sort of quiet, or it caused me sort of maybe to be a bit inverted that, and I found it difficult mixing with others, although I had some good friends I had a sort of quite a sort of enjoyable... time with I (...) The thought of mixing with others at school and school.
A bit later in life like presentations give me the... fright, and um yeah that it didn't help me interact, and this is where I partly gained an interest with computers because I was able to interact and be... be myself more, and then also like friends that may have visited and enjoyed playing the computer games as well. ...It gave me(...) I think, like, there's a lot of people that have health problems... it gave me an outlet and to express my creative and talented side.
Page 2 UY: Could you tell us more about the process of overcoming the difficulties that you had from growing up?
MF: Yeah, my (...) I remember my Dad singing songs to me on occasions, he liked to be a bit of a performer with his personality and he himself grew up not the Broadway but near to the Broadwalk in Knowle, so that must have inspired him. Yeah, he was, he's a very friendly person and encouraging, although I didn't always spend enough time with him because he's a bit of a work-a...holic and (...)
Yeah, it's not always been my favourite subject trying to explain... all my... past but I think like others are telling their story... it does help you, your confidence and helps you realise how well you could be doing now and (...) Yeah...unfortunately trying to make myself more confident if that's the right word, and more outgoing, I then later had a breakdown and obviously although I did improve my outgoing personality yeah, that led to sort of me having this sort of concern and worry of having experienced that and a certain level of experience post-traumatic stress from having that experience and that was as a young adult.
Yeah, they say it is important as well who you mix with. I had a good friend at the time that encouraged me to go to the cinema, but sometimes watching all the unpleasant movies and or movies that you don't want to watch might not always be the best thing, but people tried to be helpful to me.
Maybe you'd like to ask a question about my young adult life?
UY: If you would like to explain more about that then we would definitely be...
MF: I thought you were going to ask that question, yeah. Not a specific question. Yeah, promote it as working quite a few hours on computers and that didn't... help as well, and I found it difficult with (...) Although I had like friends via like my computer side that I found it difficult to have friends to go out and about with, the pubs and clubs and yeah so I was a bit of a sort of ...late starter with (...)
UY: Alright.... [00:10:00]
MF: in adult life... with being out there with all the night life.
UY: You mentioned before that you had an inspiration to encourage others and that you raised money for the children's hospital. Could you give us more detail about that?
MF: Yeah... not(...) I certainly spent a lot of money in the Gromit Unleashed shops and that's, yeah, certainly contributed quite a bit of money. Yeah, I always remember when I was younger having (...) The children in my class gave me a card with butterflies on and I always (...) Yeah, certainly there was a project in Bristol a couple of years ago and it certainly made me smile.
Yeah, it's a very good cause the Gromit Unleashed project, especially (...) Well they've saved a lot of lives by donating the amount of money that they have done and one of the answers should I say, and I'm trying to say today is this is where society has changed: I think there is more support for, especially children, with their confidence, their personality. And also there's a lot of people that go through their lives and have done in the past and not had their disabilities diagnosed, or still maybe not supported... as they could have, it's sort of although thankfully, I can hear as well as anybody else, going back as a child I didn't have any specific support for this, it was (...) And yeah, but I think that although I did well at likes of then maths and the IT that some other subjects I didn't sort of grasp so quickly.
UY: So what would you say were the positive things about growing up in Bristol?
Page 3 MF: Well there's a lot said about the big city, Bristol. There's Bristol city, yeah. They like the sort of quote "drink up thee cider" for Bristol City Fans. Yeah, as a young child I was a (...) My Dad took me to Ashton Gate and... I really liked the atmosphere and following a football team and it gave me ambition and sort of hope and yeah (...) I later became a successful football coach myself, winning many matches and cups and coached talented players as well to future success.
I don't do any football coaching now but in recent years I've been helping a lot of people that are unemployed to find work: disabled people. Some of them can't speak very well, some of them have visual impairments and I've been successful supporting a lot of these people into work, yeah.
UY: Could you tell us more about that - your recent work?
MF: Yeah, I started as a volunteer. It was a sort of a new ‘in’ thing: IT- based work clubs, a lot of computer learning involved and (...) My female manager at the time who was also unfortunate too, herself to be in a wheel chair wanted to sign me to work for their, not only 'cos of my computer skills but my coaching and understanding of people. Yeah, and we became one of the busiest work clubs in Bristol and later went on to be modeled by the Government on how our strategy of supporting people with disabilities into work.
UY: Is there any particular... person or event or day that you remember from this job?
MF: There is one person who, if he came in the coffee shop this morning... he'd sort of brighten up the room and although he was partly American (...) Yeah, he was the sort of a great trier with his work and I helped him on different occasions. He'd got various different jobs, but unfortunately when he came in one day and said that he weren't feeling ...very well and then the next I heard he had to go to hospital and then he experienced quite a severe cancer himself and(...) And ...when we were told that his operation was...delayed I got involved and had contacts to try to still get the operation to go ahead on time, and I supported him where I could and yeah, ...thankfully (...) Yeah, I do get a bit emotional expressing this, you might not just hear that... on the tape recording as you (...) it's not a TV programme, but yeah, thankfully my support helped save his life and he recovered from the dreaded big 'C' Cancer, and (...)Yeah, there's been other people as well have stopped me in the street and they shake my hand for helping them find work and that's always... great to experience, yeah.
UY: How did that feel when people were coming up to you and when you were recognised for the support?
MF: Yeah, that was one of the differences between when I was initially in football because, especially with football it sort of changed from one week to the next. You could be the hero or the villain depending on the result, but it was (...) Although people say football is a matter of life and death that (...) Yeah, it was making a difference to the people's lives and there's also people that (...) A relative of ...a famous footballer in Bristol wrote a story saying how we'd supported him and helped change his life because of the support we were giving him.
Because a lot of people...suffered different problems and... they don't find it easy to sort of get out and mix with others or...and also finding the right(...)... what's good for them and I think that's (...) I've found that at times especially as like a young adult, what was the best to get involved in to, not just to help my football results but help myself as a person.
UY: Would you say you received a lot of support as a young adult?
MF: ...My parents bought me a computer and it was a multi-media computer and it was... to get on with life I think! Yeah, I'm in a kind of (...) been in different fields than other family members, although my Aunt and Uncle were, being very caring people they(...) My Uncle was an ambulance driver and my Aunt was a nurse. Yeah.
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UY: Could you tell us about any obstacles that you still face today?
MF: ...Sometimes with employment...you can still get (...) that's one thing you can get judged by the past. Probably like others, applying for jobs where they are sort of, yeah, you've got the skills but, like an easy way of explaining, have you got enough experience? Or if you've, like I have, I then changed... my career from working initially in software to other work and it hasn't always been so easy trying to...explain myself and competing [00:20:00] with others and sure do (...) Even when people are fully well and recovered ...they still need understanding and support and to be back in the sort of (...) in the same position, or get back in a better position, yeah.
UY: What other changes you would like to see relating to that?
MF: Yeah, from a ...working point of view I think there's a lot said by being judged when you are actually doing some of the work. These days we have a lot of jobs that you apply for online and they judge people with their CV ...on paper, ...as you like, and like I was saying before, it's great if you've got all the several years in this specific job and that's where they needs to (...) well they do call it reasonable adjustments where people have different... impairments but there still is a need of adaptability for employers (?) to recognise people's potential.
There's a lot in this world that I (...)I'm looking at my computer at the moment and seeing the tremendous amount of children initiatives, activities, and more job opportunities for young adults, but... we can live from eight-80 but ...you still need that potential and opportunity as you get older. My Great Uncle was (...) he flew on Concorde in his 80s and he still, yep, lived life to the full.
UY: You mentioned earlier that you believed that there should be more understanding and support for people with disabilities in the working area. Could you elaborate more on that?
MF: Yeah... I think that there could be more to help people develop their skills because there's a lot of people that are(...) There's some very talented people, but ...maybe they can't work quite the same hours, or maybe they can't (...) maybe they might need a bit more time, but yeah especially from a (....) Yeah, talented people that (...)which a lot of disabled people are(...) And I think it is about valuing different people's strengths and ...their talents and (...) Yeah, and I know I've come across different disabled people where they sort of can make them(...) They can be quite outgoing in personality but others can be criticising them for their sort of amount of written work and yeah, trying to sort of (...)
Well, it’s like some of the best companies are based on good team work and good ...working ethics and...I feel that in Bristol we can still develop our inclusion of ...society. I know we're a leading city, with being a leading green city and leading yeah, alright maybe not sport [laughter] leading in lots of other ways that, yeah. I still think that ...inclusion... is something that can still be worked upon.
Maybe I'll ask the interviewer if she ever sort of (...) Not want to go there? [laughter] I got all the questions to ask today? Yeah.
UY: You say you feel Bristol could be more inclusive in terms of being a leading city, but what would you say about Bristol in terms of the accessibility?
MF: Yeah, big shopping centres are doing a lot for disabled people: lots of car parking spaces, lifts to get up and down the flights of (...) in the multi-story buildings. ...I've always, well... liked development and was inspired by Brunel in Bristol. I would like the idea of (...) I don't find it that easy myself to sort of get one end of a shopping centre to the other. I like the idea maybe we could have some small like trains that you could trans...that you could get on but big enough for say, for a person in a wheelchair to be able to travel round the shopping areas with, yeah.
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UY: Do you have any personal experience of accessibility problems in Bristol?
MF: Yeah, different relatives have had different difficulties with walking. One of them ...had a ...disabled badge and it was sort of like being able to park outside was like turning up first class! But yeah, there's all kind of difficulty, people experience problems. ...Even if there is some support maybe there's not like handrails in different places and maybe there's like theatres, cinemas, there can be (...) People can experience problems getting up and down the stairs. Maybe you could find a seat right at the front but it's not always (...) or there could be like more cost involved ...to get the best position for yourself.
Yeah...yeah, there's more to be done in Bristol I think. I know we're the (...) We've got the internationally renowned Bristol Cream and Wallace and Gromit and Banksy, Brunel. There's certainly more we could do. I think we could (...) it would be good if Bristol could be on the map for disabled people.
UY: You mentioned relatives with specific disabilities. Would you be comfortable elaborating on that, perhaps within your experience with them?
MF: Yeah, I've had different older relatives that haven't found it easy to travel about and it's sort of been hard work. I've been there on Christmas morning with other family members trying to get the car to start and then going over to ...pick them up and (....) Yeah, it can be different mobility issues and a lot of these people they dislike using taxis, well, they can be expensive, but maybe more specific support for disabled.... we could advance on.
I also like the new technology. Yeah, you remember me saying that I liked technology when we first spoke. There's all these new devices which you talk to. The Amazon, the Google, Microsoft: different devices and it's coming in now where you've got the potential to say "please put the kettle on" and it can, with the plug switch on the kettle and I think that could be...good for a lot of people because that's one of the (...) People forget is that although there's all these different things to support people: Maybe you've got a walking stick, maybe you've got people caring for you, travelling around, but it's not so easy to quickly move around and organise yourself, and people like to present themselves as well, don't they? And, yeah, and we live in weathers that are (...) winds and weathers. So I'm sure I can think of a few ideas myself, yeah.
UY: You mentioned about people having difficulties presenting yourself. Going back to your childhood perhaps, how did it feel being compared to your brother at the time?
MF: Yeah, no, I didn't find it easy because I didn't just feel like that quiet. I had a sort of outgoing sort of mixing with friends kind of thing behind the scenes you could say. And getting on interacting with computers yeah wasn't, it didn't inspire me, they, it didn't encourage me, whereas there's a lot more [00:30:00] initiatives these days, like there's lots of ...sporting initiatives and groups. And a lot of children from a young age are using technology that you couldn't have dreamed of as, ...in the past 'cos it didn't always, hasn't always worked so well and might have to wait half an hour for it to start. I remember on tape computers, yeah.
UY: How do you feel that all this modern technology today could have helped you back then?
MF: Like me, I've spent a lot of money on it, that's ...what I've done, but yeah, I've always liked visiting the shops and mixing with (...) going to the shops. But no, that's still why it's important that there are different groups for different people and to a good standard because like you go through your everyday lives and it can be, Bristol can be like London with the amount of people walking past and(...)
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Including people in society and there's a lot of (...) I've supported people, supported an organisation with ME, and a lot of those people can't get out of their house. And I've been friendly with people that have depression and they have days where they can't go out anywhere, so all these forms of interacting (...) And there's been a lot of improvements with ...online social media so people can ...interact with (...) 'specially when they are limited to...mix with people.
UY: You mentioned different groups for different people; could you tell us what you mean on that more specifically?
MF: Yeah, well not just sort of like self-help, I know that can sound like 'Alcoholics Anonymous' and can seem very kind of scary to people, but there's what we call peer support groups where people that have had different problems meet up maybe in a coffee shop or have a day out and others may be able to help the others with transport and sort of share ideas and (...) Yeah, because it can be a worry experiencing sort of doctors and hospitals and there's a lot of people out there, yeah, that need to (...)
It's good to sort of brighten up your life and (...) Yeah but...that's why I'm kind of(...) Yeah, to sort of having problems as a child and young adult to 'Health Champion' just recently completed ...a course to be pro-active, encouraging others with their health, having had very good health and well-being for over the last ten years. But, yeah, that as a child and a young adult all those difficulties I faced, it could kind of held me back in a way. I came (...) I kind of (…)more advanced in sort of maybe my analysing maths and computers, but then it could hold me back ...personally and you find yourself having to compete for the likes of, for work and(...) Yeah, ...not being easy, no, especially as society we ju (...) joke…
It can be good that we're sort of looking back and like today, that it's good if I talk about ...my achievements as well as ...my difficulty, because I think that's what it's about.... It's good to hear about people's achievements and how they've overcome problems because when I've had difficult days myself that I feel that you've got to still ...have a chat, a smile and a laugh and, sure a lot of people have liked my entertaining side to me.
UY: You mentioned that you have had difficulties - is there one in particular that you remember?
MF: As a teenager I experienced asthma and I can't just say it's asthma, but I didn't, especially at school, I didn't find sport really easy. So... I was still very determined to ...overcome that and (...) Well, I often enjoyed playing badminton on a social level. As you know sport can be very competitive and (...) I've had days where my Dad sort of (...) I mean I feel for part of the family because he's more sort of in with his sporting mates than he was with his own son, but yeah (...)
But like peer support groups, sport can (...) Well, that's one of the reasons why you do need different peer support groups because not everybody can be part of that sports team. I've been there myself where I've turned up for a cricket team and luckily I managed to get ten minutes to come on and be in the field, but...it don't help your confidence, it don't (...) and that's where one of the areas they have advanced is disability sport, trying to make that option available to, well to all.
Yeah, but also my height that (...) I liked goal keeping as a child and when I found (...) When I got older I wasn't able to jump around quite as easily as I was because, ...being a tall person, so I often sort of (...) A lot of sport and opportunity can sometimes (...) Well... you sometimes feel (...) like I know there's like (...) I've known different players smaller than myself that can easily sort of...fit in to that sporting role a bit more. I remember a younger bit wanting to be a formula one racing driver although I'd be too big, too tall for it.
UY: You mentioned that when you were trying to look for jobs there was a lot of competition. Could you tell us more about that?
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MF: Yeah, that a lot of employers want people to be able to do the job ...straight away, and different (...) this is what I've found from supporting people with disabilities is that a lot of the people may not have worked for several years and they're sort of like praying for, hoping for the next opportunity because(...)You can often(...) Those people find themselves sort of competing against others and the other persons just been doing that job for the last several years, and you got (...) probably could do as well but then that's when you need the employer to still give you that time and to sort of give people more potential, recognise their potential, recognise their talent and yeah(...)
...I've worked with disabled people and I wouldn't know their problems that they've faced without working with them. You sort of (...) I thought they maybe sort of didn't (...) they could sort of claim benefits easier, but no, they've experienced all different problems themselves, like they could have not had their ...claims as appropriate etc, ...but they can have all the same(...) Yeah, that's what I'm kind of getting at is although people do have different problems, you can have different problems as well as a person, maybe you're kind of (...) maybe you wanted to be a football player and you weren't able to, it's sort of (...) I think this is where that unfortunately a lot of people suffer depression. Well very ...severe depression is where they kind of get upset, very upset and disappointed about their past and they can't change it, and or maybe they(...) I've come across people unfortunate to have to use wheelchairs and they can't do the things that they used to and (...)
It (...) I feel life is sort of (...) I've learnt that from my experience you've gotta kind of (...) Yeah, and I don't think can ...plan so well as, always plan so well [00:40:00] what you're doing the next day, or next week, or next month, but yeah, you've got to try and ...find ...new opportunity and that's the one thing I didn't understand as a child is that how much society changes and(...) You kind of get used to what works for you and then the maybe the funding might stop or your favourite shop might close 'cos of the ...money issues, yeah.
UY: What other problems did you encounter when helping people with disabilities get jobs?
MF: ...Morale can be a ...big issue and ...I found it that if I tried to encourage the person with their confidence and ...have some, what's good, have some understanding with that person, not just say sort of say well, "you'll be in a job in the next couple of weeks", it's sort of understanding that it could be a long process and unfortunately people cannot have the motivation to keep going at times and that's where you've had (...) that's where a good employment coach is very pro-active to... help them keep going. And I've helped support people with volunteering, which is good for gaining experience and work placements and ...trying to(...) I think you've got to take a bit of their time, you've gotta (...) It's a building sort of process that (...)
I know that from myself that although you can have, been had job advisors where sort of want you to be in the work as soon as possible and, but you've got to plan and ...not only(...) I think sometimes people forget that it's not only, "oh we've got all these methods to support people or understanding the people", but the people, the person with the disability still (...) or maybe they haven't worked for a long time If they recovered from health problems. They've still got to be confident and comfortable with ...what they're doing, like trying to find the sort of, a suitable job... Maybe sort of that's where like part time work is good for disabled people, yeah.
UY: Could you tell us more about the moral support that you provided in, during that time, the process?
MF: Yeah... yeah the importance is thinking ...what you're doing and myself thinking how I'm approaching different people and I’m supporting not just (...) 'cos a lot of these people can have had a bad experience of work so... it's trying to, sometimes day to day... encouraging them. Letting them know that there's other people out there experiencing the same problems. And I guess this is one of the ideas of this 'History of Place' project here in Bristol ...is to share ideas and let people know they're ...not alone with what they're experiencing and (...)
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Yeah, we see in recent days ...in the news, the great Stephen Hawking. And I've supported people with... the illness ME and a lot of the articles featured in ...UK-based newspapers and (...) And yeah, not just sort of going on about all the difficulties of like the ill..., their illness, but positives of the likes of what Stephen's achieved and (...)
I've seen that with helping people with work, maybe some of them have been quite talented in one way. I remember help, supporting one person who was a carpenter and unfortunately couldn't continue to work in that, but he must have had quite a bit of talent to do ...the type, some of the successes what he was doing. And I believe you can (...) Like some of the best sportsmen, they are kind of (...) you're not, not .just(...) you've got yeah work your, maybe could encourage and find them ...a new area of skill to develop, yeah.
Unfortunately, these things can... take time, sometimes too long, but yeah but encouraging people, others being able to see that there's other people with similar problems and also success stories. Yeah, ...we can do it. Being a health champion, being a good employment coach....We can achieve what we're trying to achieve and yeah, that's the moral of my story today that although that (...) Yeah, childhood confidence and ...other problems but I've managed myself to achieve ...a high working standard and that is higher than most. And, yeah, I'm proud to tell my story, yeah. Forced to tell a few stories in Fleet Street maybe we could say!
UY: So could you tell us more about this positive, you know, experience that you are drawing from yourself?
MF: I'm a person that likes to(...) Well as people here listening know that to achieve things, to get results and(...) Yeah, it's not (...) this is I think where this project is good at helping other people express themselves and ...not just seeing it as something that should be hidden. ...Our pasts and(...) ...I've come across in the past where you walk into a museum and you can sort of come out sort of...put off of ...what you're seeing, but modern Bristol, this sort of idea of museums are not just old museums, they're exciting places to be involved with, yeah.
UY: Is there anything that we haven't spoken about that you would like to talk about?
MF: ...Maybe I should ask you that question, yeah. I'm sure there might be a f (...) I know I often see films and you get the sort of the editors clips involved and(...) I'm just going to get the clapper board now and, yeah just ensure everything's hunky dory for his production, yeah.
UY: Is there any, perhaps part of your childhood or young adult growing up experience that you'd like to go into in more depth?
MF: Yeah, I remember being in the deep end of swimming and that's one of the things I find myself is sort of (...) I'm the sort of person that (...) I don't get easily selected. Maybe it's because of my height and also that maybe I maybe should credit my sort of being able to keep talking. I am partly Welsh - I've got Welsh family members, yeah, so(...) I had some relatives on the phone and they(...) I saw at the end of the conversation, I don't really know what they were sort of trying to achieve by phoning up, but you had a long chat and in the process.
But no, it is important to me to deliver, to get results, to encourage, to promote. But yeah...to value people and that's the (...) Life does have its experience and I'm sure we could all say that maybe that, if we had those skills, like as a child, maybe what we can do now, but you'd be still (...) This is what I learnt from my Granddad, oh a brilliant hosting [00:50:00] person, a gentleman they called him. But, yeah, always inspiring me that(...) He never always said a great deal, but when I heard the stories that he'd served the Queen with his hosting that, it was certainly somebody to inspire too. ...My Nan liked drinking her glasses of sherry and ...never worked a day in her life but was only known for getting drunk on VE Day!
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UY: So you draw a lot of inspiration from your Nan and Granddad, could you give us more personal stories on the inspiration from them?
MF: Yeah, both my Granddads came from different backgrounds. Both survived the War. ...One of them was in the RAF. ...One of them was more(...) Maybe he had more of the appearance and character of like a jockey and the other(...) [clears throat] Excuse me. Certainly being polite is what I learnt from this Granddad. Granddad William. He was, yeah a butler on ships during the War and yeah, went on to(...) His ship got sunk but he managed to survive. His colleague unfortunately didn't and he went on to host the Queen and I'm sure he hosted many others as well. And he didn't really always have to tell his story and I don't think he did tell his story, but his stories through what he achieved.
And I think that also an important thing is being polite and having time for people, and that certainly... makes a difference I think It’s one thing (...) you can't just put up a sign ' we're doing an event for disabled people,' it's having the things to interest them and support them and ...keeping it going as well, yeah.
You're a good...interviewer.
UY: Thank you!
MF: You must have done this before.
UY: I think that's a good note to end on? Yeah, alright. Is there anything else you would like to say? Any personal stories of inspiration that you would like to express to others considering that you find that important to you?
MF: Yeah, I know the 'History of Place' was initially organised in Broad Plain and I once went on to win a skittles tournament in that venue and it (...), yeah, one of my best sporting achievements, if you can call it a sport! I know people often laughed and joked and I'm sure this media coverage will end with a few thumbs up, smiles and yeah, 'Keep going!' is the message today. Thank you.
UY: Thank you
